Mehmet Akif Okur – I am a bit aware of the barter studies as I usually follow the political economy news. You mentioned the artificial intelligence, which is very important. Artificial intelligence is something that makes it easier for the barter to analyze a calculating task within the economy, the functions of money. If there was this artificial intelligence 30-40 years ago, shall we say, the Soviet system wouldn’t collapse as well. It has the function to manage the communication of money and the market, supply and demand. This is also a functional deficiency of the barter. The artificial intelligence can solve it and make it more useful with an algorithm that gives signal just like money. It can even change the current market sense that we have. In other saying, it can validate another discipline unlike the system which is based on the financial cycle of supply and demand through money. For example, the central planning has an issue about measuring the demand. You will make production in the factories, but you really can’t reach this information. Money can measure this, but the point is, there can be a better system to substitute money, where people can quickly convey their possible supply and demand in the future, bring the money’s functions back, in a sense more efficient and away from the market’s crisis.

Levent Ağaoğlu – What you just said, and your determination is very important. I took it to Harezmi because you said algorithm. Harezmi already means algorithm. He is Turkish. Now,  Turkey is back in his way, returning to algorithm. But the money is being excluded. Before there was nothing except money, but algorithm. Indians found the ‘zero’, and Harezmi functionalised it. So the Turkish intelligence and algorithm replaces money in this country, as we see from the course of events.

Mehmet Akif Okur – Yes, modern capitalism for example. The crisis of 2008 has a reason behind the curtain, but it has another one which is visible, its deficiency about the functioning of the  market mechanism. You are producing all the time, and selling, but the system breaks down, you can’t see the future. If they can make a programming that shows the system instantly through artificial intelligence, which is technically possible, then you can put it in the center of the economy. So this will become a system that can take on the money’s functioning more profoundly.

Levent Ağaoğlu – So that the barter doesn’t have anything wrong.

Mehmet Akif Okur – The artificial intelligence can take on the task that can be solved only with money, and that makes the things harder for barter.Because it is a difficult calculating process. One of the reasons that the non-market alternatives can’t survive is the communication that money provides, how much you will produce, how much you will consume, what you need, what you need to do, it can’t do this from the system bureaucratically. Economy is a large scale, with every human being a major factor growing in the system. We are now an integrated society with cell phones,etc, our infrastructure has been constitued, we receive lots of messages, and send them back. An artificial intelligence that receives all these messages through the signalisation in this integrated system, can take on the money’s signalisation components. This will be a process that facilitates barter’s transactions.

After 20 years, if this technological progress goes on, we will begin to talk about the problems of the economics of abundance. For example, let’s say, the artificial intelligence and the robot are combined. Think about the agricultural lands, you can voluminously expand these lands. Because instead of thinking about the cost of a worker, you can make a three dimensional examination. And the robot works there, you can increase the productivity. As a consequence, the requirement for human labor will decrease. In the past, after each industrial revolution, they overcame this problem by changing the occupations. But this time, there will be no more need for human labor, so we should move them to another place where they won’t work. This system should be a social design that will not destroy humanity. Because how will you lead the people you don’t need?

Levent Ağaoğlu – In my opinion, barter is very suitable for BRICS (Brasil, Russia, India, China and Sout Africa). When we call it barter, it’s actually BRICS model. All of them are against US dollar, there is population, raw material. It becomes a global model with these countries.

Mehmet Akif Okur – And they have an advantage like, for example, Russia has already oil, and naturally cash money by selling it.

Levent Ağaoğlu –We have two starting points here. Why did America started a trade war with us in 2018? I lived 5 years in Hong Kong. Mao died in 1976. In 1978, China started a 50 years plan, called world hegemony. I am Congo in 2028, means the world’s center country. In China, they call America ‘Meybul’, which means beautiful country. They are emulating, so they are going to be an America. I will ask you a question about the starting point. We have two starting points, first is Turkish generation, second one is barter. About barter, you explained very well, America had free trade with England. And they took us down with the agreement in 1838. America is full of hegemony feelings. They faced down Japan with agreements, and now trying for China. Can we manage here a barter model over the Turkish generation ? When we open newspapers, we see same things everywhere, stop using dollar. How are we going to get out of this situation? As we know, America is implementing the barter system perfectly. But they don’t want it outside the country. Because barter means leaving dollar, no more cash, no more interest. Can we become the pioneer of barter sytem as Turkey ? Can we implement a barter model to the Turkish generation, which means to China, India, Russia, Turkey and Turkestan?

Levent Ağaoğlu –What is the situation when we look at the economic history in terms of barter?

Mehmet Akif Okur –

1)Barter economy in large scale has usualy been implemented when there is a financial crisis. Rome’s collapse period is an example. In other words, if the power that manages the money economy disappears, or if it is not desired to establish a relationship with this power, the barter is involved. This example is important to understand the requirement for the barter

2) There are issues about implementation of barter in large scale economies, in modern era. Because you have to be part of a society with strict relations and develop relationships for barter. No matter how much you try to do, there will be limits. Especially in the systems dominated by individualism, the issue is much more difficult.In this situation, it seems possible to implement barter in large scale with computer enhanced systems. This is also a kind of credit system, and a kind of new money that undertakes the functions of money. It is necessary to continue working on it and to evaluate other studies.

Levent Ağaoğlu –Thank you for the interview


1) Rome(USA) collapse again. Barter will revive.2) We will overcome the functional issues through artificial intelligence.

MIND : 1) Our origin is the city.This is our common ground. 2) Our intellectual genetics is solidarity based, systematics of barter 3)Our social structure is strong. We are not individualist.

TERRITORY : 1) We are the key for Afro-Eurasia 2) We are in a peninsula 3)We are Asia Minor 4)We are Silk Road 5) As integrity Turkey&Turkestan ; we are neighbour with Russia, China and India